Posted Apr 07, 2008 at 10:50PM by Sally B.
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Rumors
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Microsoft,
Australia,
Ross Fitzgerald
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According to The Australian columnist Ross Fitzgerald, there's a possibility that people working for the game industry are trying to pressure Australian government officials into approving the implementation of an R-rating for use of video games released in Australia. The move was started more than a month ago, and we certainly hope the Australian government caves in: as it stands right now, any game that goes beyond the MA 15+ rating is banned and not released. Here's part of the snippet taken from Fitzgerald's article: The whisper is that… Attorney-General Robert McClelland (left) and his junior, Home Affairs Minister Bob Debus, have had a stream of lobbyists representing Nintendo and Microsoft in their ears about creating this new R-rating for violent video games. Fitzgerald doesn't sound all too happy about it though, and added the following: The rest of Australia’s state and federal attorneys should hang their heads in shame for trying to foist a category of computer games on us that will contain mostly mind-numbing violence. We'll just try to refrain from commenting on that last quote, but here's what we can tell you: we certainly hope that Australia gets the R-rating it deserves, so adult gamers will finally acquire their right to play games that are rated for their use. |
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[Via The Australian]
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10 Comments
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by Fallen - 2008-04-07 |
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» Heres to hoping.
Living in Australia it is getting rather tiresome to see games banned. Just restrict for 18+ and have those titles under the counter in retailers.
We have an R rating for everything else, Adults can choose what they want to view.
Living in Australia it is getting rather tiresome to see games banned. Just restrict for 18+ and have those titles under the counter in retailers.
We have an R rating for everything else, Adults can choose what they want to view.
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Re: icemann - 2008-04-09 |
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» ebay
Just buy the games off ebay. Thats what I do.
Just buy the games off ebay. Thats what I do.
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by SomeGuy - 2008-04-08 |
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» I certainly hope we don't get it.
I know for a fact if we do get it twelve year olds will easily be able to buy such games, that's just the way it is in Australia.
I'm also not concerned because I haven't seen a single game I'd want to play get a banned.
Thirdly if it is banned and we still want it, it's easier and far cheaper to buy it online. It's usually half the cost, gets delivered to your door and only takes a week or so. Which is usually less time than a game takes to get released.
It's a little harder if you have a console, but still I've not seen a game get that kind of rating that I'd Liked to buy
I know for a fact if we do get it twelve year olds will easily be able to buy such games, that's just the way it is in Australia.
I'm also not concerned because I haven't seen a single game I'd want to play get a banned.
Thirdly if it is banned and we still want it, it's easier and far cheaper to buy it online. It's usually half the cost, gets delivered to your door and only takes a week or so. Which is usually less time than a game takes to get released.
It's a little harder if you have a console, but still I've not seen a game get that kind of rating that I'd Liked to buy
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Re: Quixand - 2008-04-08 |
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» and if you are an
"adult gamer" and is capable of playing R18 games the you probably are also capable enough (know-how and resource-wise) to be able to buy a game online....
which is why i ain't too upset about this just like SomeGuy... keeping the games off the shelves will help on keeping all those brats from getting it and if you are an adult you can still enjoy the game by doing some overseas trading.
if they change the ruling then fine if they stay put with it then it's no problem...
"adult gamer" and is capable of playing R18 games the you probably are also capable enough (know-how and resource-wise) to be able to buy a game online....
which is why i ain't too upset about this just like SomeGuy... keeping the games off the shelves will help on keeping all those brats from getting it and if you are an adult you can still enjoy the game by doing some overseas trading.
if they change the ruling then fine if they stay put with it then it's no problem...
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by DaRk_jAcKaL - 2008-04-08 |
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» About time
At least if this gets in (it bloody well should), we can stop selling games as MA15+ when they should be given R18+ ... at least if there was such a rating parents would know that the game in question is ABSOLUTELY NOT FOR CHILDREN.
When I worked in EB I saw plenty of parents buying GTA games for their 10 year olds, and when I asked "Are you sure you want your kid playing this?" The response was without fail, "It's only M, how bad can it be?"
Basically until an R18+ rating is introduced, games in Australia will be viewed by the general public as a form of entertainment exclusively for minors, whereas in reality games are being made for an increasingly older audience. The ratings system needs to reflect that for the good of the adult gamer and the good of the parents who rely on it to make decisions.
At least if this gets in (it bloody well should), we can stop selling games as MA15+ when they should be given R18+ ... at least if there was such a rating parents would know that the game in question is ABSOLUTELY NOT FOR CHILDREN.
When I worked in EB I saw plenty of parents buying GTA games for their 10 year olds, and when I asked "Are you sure you want your kid playing this?" The response was without fail, "It's only M, how bad can it be?"
Basically until an R18+ rating is introduced, games in Australia will be viewed by the general public as a form of entertainment exclusively for minors, whereas in reality games are being made for an increasingly older audience. The ratings system needs to reflect that for the good of the adult gamer and the good of the parents who rely on it to make decisions.
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Re: SomeGuy - 2008-04-08 |
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» It won't happen
I bought GTA for my 11 sister, I don't see anything wrong with that game it's fun. When the gameplay outweighs the theme it's not so bad.
But we're talking about games that have been banned not being banned, I can only think of one game which got banned to me looked like a crap game that people only bought because of the theme was so out there.
If they do release R18+ they'll need to police the sale of games to minors, which will also include the MA+15 which currently nobody polices.
I can imagine how hard that's going to be on game store owners for the hassle of selling that rare banned game that prolly won't sell well.
Either way it's unlikely the board will bend to gaming pressure anyway and nothing will change.
And aren't you a little biased being part of the gaming industry??
I bought GTA for my 11 sister, I don't see anything wrong with that game it's fun. When the gameplay outweighs the theme it's not so bad.
But we're talking about games that have been banned not being banned, I can only think of one game which got banned to me looked like a crap game that people only bought because of the theme was so out there.
If they do release R18+ they'll need to police the sale of games to minors, which will also include the MA+15 which currently nobody polices.
I can imagine how hard that's going to be on game store owners for the hassle of selling that rare banned game that prolly won't sell well.
Either way it's unlikely the board will bend to gaming pressure anyway and nothing will change.
And aren't you a little biased being part of the gaming industry??
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Re: DaRk_jAcKaL - 2008-04-09 |
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» Bias?
SomeGuy, I worked for EB Games for 1 year when I was still in high school, I'm not exactly "part of the industry". Mind you while I was there I did check ID's on MA game sales, as did most of the other staff at my store. It is after all a legal obligation to only sell MA games to those aged 15 and up, carrying a maximum penalty of $1500 to the individual (can't remember the penalty to the company).
Of course there are lazy staff members who don't bother, but the same is true of any industry selling restricted materials (movies, alcohol, tobacco, porno mags).
That is a problem with society in general and not specifically the gaming industry, so why should the gaming industry suffer for it?
This is from the first page of the National Classification Code.
1. Classification decisions are to give effect, as far as possible, to the following
principles:
(a) adults should be able to read, hear and see what they want;
And then you move to the computer games section and this hits you.
1. Computer games that: (d) are unsuitable for a minor to see or play (are refused classification).
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legislation/LegislativeInstrument1.nsf/0/7CACAF6B58C63E44CA25700D0022F7ED?OpenDocument
How can adults be allowed to read, hear and see what they want, but not play anything that would not be suitable for a minor? It's just crazy.
I know if i wanted to play a game that was RC, I could import it, but that's not my point. I'm an adult capable of making my own decisions regarding my entertainment and should not have to tiptoe around the government when I want to play something that wasn't designed for children.
SomeGuy, I worked for EB Games for 1 year when I was still in high school, I'm not exactly "part of the industry". Mind you while I was there I did check ID's on MA game sales, as did most of the other staff at my store. It is after all a legal obligation to only sell MA games to those aged 15 and up, carrying a maximum penalty of $1500 to the individual (can't remember the penalty to the company).
Of course there are lazy staff members who don't bother, but the same is true of any industry selling restricted materials (movies, alcohol, tobacco, porno mags).
That is a problem with society in general and not specifically the gaming industry, so why should the gaming industry suffer for it?
This is from the first page of the National Classification Code.
1. Classification decisions are to give effect, as far as possible, to the following
principles:
(a) adults should be able to read, hear and see what they want;
And then you move to the computer games section and this hits you.
1. Computer games that: (d) are unsuitable for a minor to see or play (are refused classification).
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legislation/LegislativeInstrument1.nsf/0/7CACAF6B58C63E44CA25700D0022F7ED?OpenDocument
How can adults be allowed to read, hear and see what they want, but not play anything that would not be suitable for a minor? It's just crazy.
I know if i wanted to play a game that was RC, I could import it, but that's not my point. I'm an adult capable of making my own decisions regarding my entertainment and should not have to tiptoe around the government when I want to play something that wasn't designed for children.
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by SomeGuy - 2008-04-09 |
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» Your right on a few points
When I worked at BP the fines for selling cigarettes was about the same except I was the only one asking for ID every time so customers got pissed when they couldn't get them. Isn't it wise not to create a situation we know we can't handle, nobody cares if a 12 y/o buys a MA+15 game but they will about a R+.
I've yet to see a games place ask for ID, not that I think they need to atm, but if R+ games became available you must agree they'd be more certain to check that things a followed which will cause some problems.
X rated movies are banned at movie theaters, there are limits on what is publicly acceptable. It's more of a debate as to whether or not there should be censorship, not just giving something a rating which was only the second part of the job.
If you added R+ you'll find many more games get rated as that, I'd rather see a lax MA+15 rating than a strict R+ rating.
What are you campaigning for nobody is confused as to which age group games are suited for, what you want is to be able to buy games that were banned under a R+ rating.
Do you want to buy any of these games?
p.s. Even working at a place for only a short possible time you can come around to thinking about things in a different light.
I have enjoyed debating this with you. I guess I'm just happy with the system the way it is and I can see things possibly getting annoying. Risk vs Reward, for that one game I don't want to play anyway to me it's not worth changing a system for. The whole game rating system has always been a little dubious anyway.
When I worked at BP the fines for selling cigarettes was about the same except I was the only one asking for ID every time so customers got pissed when they couldn't get them. Isn't it wise not to create a situation we know we can't handle, nobody cares if a 12 y/o buys a MA+15 game but they will about a R+.
I've yet to see a games place ask for ID, not that I think they need to atm, but if R+ games became available you must agree they'd be more certain to check that things a followed which will cause some problems.
X rated movies are banned at movie theaters, there are limits on what is publicly acceptable. It's more of a debate as to whether or not there should be censorship, not just giving something a rating which was only the second part of the job.
If you added R+ you'll find many more games get rated as that, I'd rather see a lax MA+15 rating than a strict R+ rating.
What are you campaigning for nobody is confused as to which age group games are suited for, what you want is to be able to buy games that were banned under a R+ rating.
Do you want to buy any of these games?
p.s. Even working at a place for only a short possible time you can come around to thinking about things in a different light.
I have enjoyed debating this with you. I guess I'm just happy with the system the way it is and I can see things possibly getting annoying. Risk vs Reward, for that one game I don't want to play anyway to me it's not worth changing a system for. The whole game rating system has always been a little dubious anyway.
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by DaRk_jAcKaL - 2008-04-09 |
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» I agree, games ratings are dubious.
It's not so much games that were outright banned that I want to play, but the "proper" versions of games that have been nerfed to sneak in at MA15+, such as Dark Sector (severed limbs makes hack-and-slash just that much more satisfying) and GTA4 (as yet unspecified nerfing).
You're right that nobody is confused at what the ratings mean, but many parents take them as gospel without ever looking at the content of the game itself. I'd like to think that if a kid asked mum for an R18+ game they'd at least check why it got the high rating before giving in to the brat.
I realise that having an R18+ rating would mean a large number of games would receive such a rating, and that's exactly what I want. It is the responsibility of the OFLC to protect minors from adult content, and an R18+ rating would make their job easier, while still allowing adults to play what they wanted.
One example, who in thier right mind could say Condemned 2 is suitable for minors? The games overriding themes are depression and alcoholism, and its main gameplay feature is brutal hand-to-hand combat which allows for context sensitive instant kills in city back alleys.
After all the media attention on early morning pub brawls leading to a fatality (http://www.onepunchcankill.com.au/), you'd think the last thing anyone would want would be for impressionable youth to play Condemned 2 and pop raging e-boners when they crushed a homeless man's face into a wall while their character was blind drunk. By the way, Condemned 2 got an R18+ in NZ.
I know that asking for ID would create some friction at the check out, but the worst case scenario is as follows:
Kid: Can I have game X?
Clerk: Sure mate, got ID on you there?
Kid: Umm... *sheepish look, walks away*
Adult: Can i have game X?
Clerk: No problem, ID?
Adult: *Slightly irritated* What, I don't look 18 to you?
Clerk: You do, but the rule of thumb is I have to check if you look under 25. Just covering my ass mate, I don't have $1500 to spare.
Adult: Eh, ok... *shows ID*
Clerk: Thanks... OK cool, enjoy.
Adult: Cheers.
Is that really so difficult?
Personally I'd rather see the strict R18+ rating which would actually keep some games out of a minors hands (for the most part) than a lenient MA15+ rating which as you know allows minors to play damn near anything they like. As an added bonus, games wouldn't get nerfed on their way here. Not that it really matters to me, as it will always be cheaper to import heheh.
It's not like an R18+ rating would require complete system overhaul or anything, it would just bring games into line with movies. And whenever age classification is concerned, consistency is good.
It's not so much games that were outright banned that I want to play, but the "proper" versions of games that have been nerfed to sneak in at MA15+, such as Dark Sector (severed limbs makes hack-and-slash just that much more satisfying) and GTA4 (as yet unspecified nerfing).
You're right that nobody is confused at what the ratings mean, but many parents take them as gospel without ever looking at the content of the game itself. I'd like to think that if a kid asked mum for an R18+ game they'd at least check why it got the high rating before giving in to the brat.
I realise that having an R18+ rating would mean a large number of games would receive such a rating, and that's exactly what I want. It is the responsibility of the OFLC to protect minors from adult content, and an R18+ rating would make their job easier, while still allowing adults to play what they wanted.
One example, who in thier right mind could say Condemned 2 is suitable for minors? The games overriding themes are depression and alcoholism, and its main gameplay feature is brutal hand-to-hand combat which allows for context sensitive instant kills in city back alleys.
After all the media attention on early morning pub brawls leading to a fatality (http://www.onepunchcankill.com.au/), you'd think the last thing anyone would want would be for impressionable youth to play Condemned 2 and pop raging e-boners when they crushed a homeless man's face into a wall while their character was blind drunk. By the way, Condemned 2 got an R18+ in NZ.
I know that asking for ID would create some friction at the check out, but the worst case scenario is as follows:
Kid: Can I have game X?
Clerk: Sure mate, got ID on you there?
Kid: Umm... *sheepish look, walks away*
Adult: Can i have game X?
Clerk: No problem, ID?
Adult: *Slightly irritated* What, I don't look 18 to you?
Clerk: You do, but the rule of thumb is I have to check if you look under 25. Just covering my ass mate, I don't have $1500 to spare.
Adult: Eh, ok... *shows ID*
Clerk: Thanks... OK cool, enjoy.
Adult: Cheers.
Is that really so difficult?
Personally I'd rather see the strict R18+ rating which would actually keep some games out of a minors hands (for the most part) than a lenient MA15+ rating which as you know allows minors to play damn near anything they like. As an added bonus, games wouldn't get nerfed on their way here. Not that it really matters to me, as it will always be cheaper to import heheh.
It's not like an R18+ rating would require complete system overhaul or anything, it would just bring games into line with movies. And whenever age classification is concerned, consistency is good.
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by SomeGuy - 2008-04-10 |
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» one punch kill
notice how they let a teenager off with a slap on the wrist and the next day there was another one punch kill.
Some people need real consequences to stop them from being idiots you can't be lax on some stuff.
it's disappointing when games get changed to sneak into the M15+ but I do think game should be ok for all audiences if possible, I mean it's usually all about the gameplay isn't it. Controversy is just free marketing more than good games, I remember the recall of GTA3 but my friend didn't return his still I didn't notice anything big.
If they make the change I doubt much will change, however games might not be modified as often. I'm very critical of games it seems harder to make those ground breaking games of the past but some get close. It's much easier to make a gimmick and put very little descriptions on the box :P
I don't reckon the board that rates the games ever plays them or knows what games are about, I say games are less intrusive than movies in many respects but that's a typical gamers opinion.
notice how they let a teenager off with a slap on the wrist and the next day there was another one punch kill.
Some people need real consequences to stop them from being idiots you can't be lax on some stuff.
it's disappointing when games get changed to sneak into the M15+ but I do think game should be ok for all audiences if possible, I mean it's usually all about the gameplay isn't it. Controversy is just free marketing more than good games, I remember the recall of GTA3 but my friend didn't return his still I didn't notice anything big.
If they make the change I doubt much will change, however games might not be modified as often. I'm very critical of games it seems harder to make those ground breaking games of the past but some get close. It's much easier to make a gimmick and put very little descriptions on the box :P
I don't reckon the board that rates the games ever plays them or knows what games are about, I say games are less intrusive than movies in many respects but that's a typical gamers opinion.
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